Curse

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Okay,

This has been complained about numerous times.
Regardless, I dont' care, and I'm posting anyways as a means of venting my anger and frustration.

Basically, I'm getting sick and tired of how bloody expensive it is to buy decent armor upgrades and valuable weapons in-game now.

All you rich GW folk shut your mouths and hold your flames.

It was different in Prophecies, the armor upgrades were needed in gradual succession. You could get pretty far with simple Ascalon armor or something with +30-40 AL. With Factions? You get to Seitung Harbor and you're introduced to enemies that can easily wipe you out with the base armor your given at start, but the cheapest upgrade at that time, that truly HELPS, is 400gp + any supplies needed. Yes, I do realise that combat in GW is not soley based on the level of your armor. Obviously there are skills which can aid you, but only to a certain extent.
The whole concept of armor to me is collector value on top of the fact that, yes, it does benefit your character in many ways in-game.
But if you're new to the game, it could take you ages to get that kind of money considering half of the new players don't have old characters from Prophecies who are loaded with money, or who could get money easily by farming.

So if a new player gets to Kaineng Center and wants to go embark on some questing and adventuring with henchies, chances are he's not going to get very far with that +25 AL (guestimate) armor he has on.

So what if a monk wants to upgrade to that 400gp armor back in Seitung Harbor?
Lets look at Canthan armor.
In Seitung, it's 400gp like every other armor upgrade there.
If you have trouble saving up supplies like bolts of cloth (which isn't too hard, but for a newbie, who knows) and the other supply needed -- damask -- it's going to take you a while to save up money just to BUY these supplies.
Last time I was in Seitung with a new character, and mind you, I've never ever had a lot of money on my characters, and if I did, it got spent on 1.5k droks armor, and the most expensive set I ever bought was 1.5k Kurzick, which took me forever because A) I don't PvP and B) I have no Faction to 'trade in' for amber. Thus, I have to BUY my amber, which at the time was going 2-3k for ONE amber chunk.

So back to Seitung.
A newbie monk wants to upgrade to the newest armor possible.
400gp flat for each piece, plus 56 bolts of cloth (140gp last time I checked) and 7 bolts of damask (440gp for ONE bolt). On top of that, you have about 460gp to pay for two rolls of parchment, and 220 for a vial of ink. This was all last time I checked in game.

400 x 5 = 2000gp
140 x 60 / 10 = 840gp
440 x 7 = 3080gp
+ 680gp for head tattoo.

6.6plat for something that has to last you until you can save up another 15k to get your 1.5k (max) armor. Which, for a monk or something similar, would be about 20k+ considering the price of their supplies is more than say, a warrior who wants glads armor which needs tanned hide and bolts of cloth (if I remember correctly).
To some, 6.6plat may not be a lot of money.
That's great. I'm glad you spend 18 hours a day (overexaggeration) farming, or you just jump the bandwagon and get yourself a good ol' Ebay account.

One. I don't have a credit card, and even if I did, I wouldn't buy money on Ebay because I think it's ridiculous and takes away from the game.
Two. I don't have time to farm like most people. I don't have a fast enough computer to PvP to gain Faction, nor is it fast enough to group farm places like FoW and UW. I don't know enough about solo farming FoW or UW either.

Call me a 'noob' or 'newbie' if you will.
I still consider myself fairly new to the game, even though I've been around since last October. I learn something new every time I play, but the one thing I've never understand, is why it's so much money for a set of armor. ESPECIALLY if "the armor isn't that important when considering skills that can protect you otherwise." If the armor isn't that important due to certain skills, then why is it so much money to buy?
It's even worse in Factions because you're required to spend such money so soon into the game.
For some, yes you can get far with that base armor, but for others, that certainly may not be an option.
Again, in Prophecies, it was a while before you experienced any enemies even close to level 20. That took pressure off when it came to buying armor and having certain defenses. In Factions, you're put into the thick of it right when you get off the island. And, for a new player who only plays Factions, Shing Jea Island doesn't have good enough drops for someone to save 15k up ASAP like someone who can farm in Prophecies and then transfer money via their storage account.

I have a warrior whom I can farm with if I want a little bit of extra money, but with the places I farm, it takes practically a week - 2 weeks just to save 15k.

Nobody should have to resort to 'farming' just to get a set of armor so they can progress through the game in a more relaxed and less frustrating manner.
It's ridiculous.

I'm not even going to get started on people who have full FoW armor on all 6 characters. To me that's absolutely obscene and I have no idea where they get that much money in such short amounts of time, even though so many people refuse to admit to using Ebay. I believe them. I trust they have worked hard, and many have been around since beta.

But, to me, it just seems unfair.
Maybe it's just because of all the people who go around advertising their money and showing off items and all the different armor they have. True, it makes one jealous and quite envious.
It's more or less the fact that, there are people out there who don't like to farm, and there are people out there who cannot PvP, and people who just never make enough money to get the majority of the items they NEED in-game. Whilst others, simply blow their money out of the water on anything and everything.
To the people who have been around since the beginning, I accept that you have worked hard for your money. To the people who are somewhat new, and manage to get more money than those who have been here since the beginning, I don't know what you're doing if you're not farming FoW and UW and all that crap and trading/selling like no tomorrow.

As for weapon upgrades?
People spending 100k+ on a weapon due to the fact that it has a nice skin?
I think that's ridiculous.

I remember in Diablo 2 (and yes, for you arrogant ones, I realise GW is NOT Diablo 2) it was still mighty expensive to buy decent weaponry and armor upgrades. But the money drops were a lot more generous, and even the item drops were a lot more beneficial than the item drops I see in-game in GW. They happened more frequently, and even if they weren't top-of-the-line items, they still had good stats so that you could fend for yourself while you kept trying to save for that one big thing you wanted.

Basically, I'm tired of struggling with my characters to get them to mid-way point in the game, and having to constantly go back and forth between my warrior to farm, and my other characters to transfer money.
I think it's such a waste of time.
I could be doing something like learning to PvP properly, or simply progressing in the game, but half the time I can't because I need to rely on my teammates (or God forbid henchmen) to do the majority of the work for me because I'm too busy trying to maintain health, due to the fact that I'm stuck using near-base armor.

I've been told if I want to PvP, make a PvP character so that you get pretty well maxed out items off the bat.
True, I could choose to take the easy way out, but no, I have love for RPG and adventure and to me, I would rather play through the game and discover my own builds that could be beneficial to PvP, and find and create items that I can use rather than having to choose from a select list.
It's not the same.
And personally I just don't think it's fair. Not just to me, but to everybody experiencing this problem, ESPECIALLY the newcomers who want nothing than to put on that 1.5k armor and call it even, yet, can't because they're spending hours upon hours saving up items worth 8-20gp at the vendor.

Basically I think the GW economy sucks, and has sucked ever since Factions came out.
Why is it that for armor of the same value as Drok's (ie. same AL, '1.5k' armor) it costs MORE to buy it if it's Kurzick or Luxon?
"Well they're the main Factions of the game."
True.
So then why not make the supply prices equal out to what they would in Prophecies, rather than asking people to spend another 10-15k on Jade and Amber chunks before they can even spend the USUAL amount on the rest?

I won't even get into the 15k and Obsidian armor because I think the prices for those, if you buy all the supplies, is just astounding. And I can't get over the people who just keep buying them and buying them.

And again, I'm speaking more for the people who aren't queer little Ebay shoppers, and the people who can't and/or don't know how to properly farm for that kind of money. So anybody who falls under either of those two categories, don't bother flaming me on the subject. That's great that you have 500k and can spend it on anything you want, whether you worked hard for it or not. I respect if people worked hard for it, but at the same time I still find it ridiculous that there are people who have played the game since the beginning and have 500k+, one .. one or more accounts, and then there are similar people, who have played from the beginning, but never had more than 15-20k at a time.

The suitable answer to that could be, "Well, if you didn't spend that 15-20k you could still have it on top of the other 10k you have now."
Which is true, but that 15-20k was probably used to buy one decent set of armor, for one character. And such is the same with the rest of the money that player made.
If you have 3 characters, why wait and save ALL your money for one, when you could get 1.5k armor for them all? To me that's stupid. But even if I wanted 1.5k armor for those 3 characters, that's still a good 45-50k.
I just think it's way too difficult to get that kind of money, and way too time consuming for someone who just wants to adventure.

Just my simply opinion, again, I don't want flames or people with 500k to give me their stuck-up remarks. I'm just saying.

KiRi · Aug 09, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I completly agree with you on every point you've made so far. I also have a main warrior who i have full 15k armor because i got luck with a few drops early when i got the game...before farming became insane.
Now I have no time to farm, nor do i find it a fun part of this game, and with my newer characters coming in from factions has been a huge pain...I bought factions because of the newer character classes and designs and now i cant even afford to keep using them as buying all those skills and armor/upgrades is destroying my bank account.

Lady Lozza · Aug 09, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Though I can understand where you are coming from Matix, and how expensive it must seem to new players, I managed to get my 3 factions characters from Shing Jae all the way to KC on starter armour. Yes I died heaps and heaps, but I got there in the end because I didn't want to spend my hard earned money and materials on new armour.

If you feel that you can't do that, however, GW does offer a reasonable alternative in the form of collector armour. Certianly for the KC collectors, getting the items works best if you already have a high lvl character (to farm the items) in that area, but it isn't impossible to do it with "new" character. Collectors also stock weapons (which are often better than those you can buy) and can be upgraded when you salvage new parts.

majoho · Aug 09, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

To the OP you don't actually have to get all the armor upgrade each time you can get one - if you do it, blame yourself.

As for farming, just a hint you can make >5k + the chance of a good drops from just one 'vermin' run and it doesn't take a lot of time, or go Ettin rune farming there's a fair chance of getting superior runes that are worth a lot.

The thing is you do not ever need to farm in GW if you want to spend a lot of money (which you don't have to) you will need to farm a bit to be able to afford it.

EDIT: Actually I've made over 100k + gotten some runes that I use for myself by doing the above stuff some times over the last week, so it's entirely possible to do it.

Azrael1309 · Aug 09, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

First off, I hope you're feeling a bit better after making this post. Secondly, You are so right about the rushed progression of Factions. Its been one of the things that some people hated about the game. I tried making a Canthan character and try to make it on only the money that character made. Although the monetary quest rewards do ease the financial burden, you still have to grind to enough money just to buy armor in Seitung Harbor. Now, if you want max armor, it either means skipping on Seitung Harbor armor and grind more or having an old character bring in money.

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 02:54 AM // 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Though I can understand where you are coming from Matix, and how expensive it must seem to new players, I managed to get my 3 factions characters from Shing Jae all the way to KC on starter armour. Yes I died heaps and heaps, but I got there in the end because I didn't want to spend my hard earned money and materials on new armour.

If you feel that you can't do that, however, GW does offer a reasonable alternative in the form of collector armour. Certianly for the KC collectors, getting the items works best if you already have a high lvl character (to farm the items) in that area, but it isn't impossible to do it with "new" character. Collectors also stock weapons (which are often better than those you can buy) and can be upgraded when you salvage new parts.

Well that's basically where I've ended up turning to for now, the only problem is the +15armor stats to things like physical or elemental damage.
Collector's helps for sure if you want to save money, but even then, it's more the time it takes to save a certain amount of money rather than the concept of saving it in general. I save as much as I can but then comes a time when I need to buy skills, considering Factions doesn't have quests whereby you can learn skills as a reward. That on top of buying skills for other characters, including Capture Signets to get elites etc.
I just find the general economy of the game to be a very draining thing, and I think something should be done about making money a little easier to get in-game.
Everyone wants this though, which is why I'm merely ranting about the subject and not offering it as something ANet or developers should change.

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

As for farming, just a hint you can make >5k + the chance of a good drops from just one 'vermin' run and it doesn't take a lot of time, or go Ettin rune farming there's a fair chance of getting superior runes that are worth a lot.

I've been trying to find decent modes of farming for a while, but everything I read about now is 'FoW' or 'UW' farming.
I troll farm and hydra farm and I find it takes a long time to save up, and the drops are never very good.
I've considered Ettin rune farming as well, but as for the 'vermin' run I've never heard of such a thing ...

Mr_T_bot · Aug 09, 2006, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Arena Net pretended that because they gave you a little money in quests, you would be richer than rich and be able to afford the armor more expensive than exists in Prophecies and the quickly increasing cost of skills.

Age · Aug 09, 2006, 03:14 AM // 03:14

I am certianly not a GW Rich person as I don't have all my chars in 15K armour and I do farm.I have been playing way over year now since retail in April 05 and I did play in beta.It would be nice to see a little more gold in the game.

Don Zardeone · Aug 09, 2006, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Just an example of low budget armour:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Warrior%27s_Armor

But yeah at release of factions I calculated how much it would cost for a newcomer to get basic warrior equipment:
Glads or plate with perfect crafter weapon without any mods.
It was about 30k at that time. For the other classes I checked a bit too but they were at 20 to 35k, something like that, droks equivalent btw*

If it's 6.6k for a monk nowadays (compared to the minimum 22k I figured out at release of factions) then that's almost 1/4th of what it used to be.
Oh and don't forget warrior super absorbs went down at least 30 to 38k in price, monk runes dropped to 10% of their pre-factions price, etc etc.

Prices have gone down but they're still high.

What I think is kind of crap is that the difficulty level for beginners in GW depends directly on the amount of players areound you.
If you're nub and you start GW together with thirty thousand other people, then your gear will cost a lot more than when you started a month before a chapter release.

A way to fix that would be putting a fixed price and no materials on the standard armours and crafter weapons~

EDIT: and to the peope above and below this post, bitching about people bitching about people who are bitching is... eh you figure it out

CHUIU · Aug 09, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

If you want perfect weapon mods, armor, and greens, then be prepared to pay the price. I've never had a problem affording the things I want and I don't solo farm for days on end or buy gold online.

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 03:30 AM // 03:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Zardeone

Prices have gone down but they're still high.

What I think is kind of crap is that the difficulty level for beginners in GW depends directly on the amount of players areound you.
If you're nub and you start GW together with thirty thousand other people, then your gear will cost a lot more than when you started a month before a chapter release.

A way to fix that would be putting a fixed price and no materials on the standard armours and crafter weapons~

Good call.
No materials for standard items would be nice, so long as they kept the option of having armor with +mods to them.
I have a feeling that if they took away the use of materials in such armor, they would take away all the benefits of that armor as well. I'm also a pessimist, so, I could be entirely wrong. But for some reason, and just the way things have been with the economy in GW lately, I feel that would be true. They'd save all the modded armors for later in the game when people could 'afford' them, and simply leave the base armors for beginners. Which, albeit unfair, if they took away materials it would still be nice because of the lower price. But those mods do come in handy early in the game I find.

I honestly think the price is mainly a result of the look of the armor, which I still think is stupid because I think a lot of the Faction 15k armor looks really bad. Plus, it's the same stats. If they're going to put a price that high on something like armor, simply for looks, the least they could do would be to up the mods a little so that the game doesn't seem purely based on aesthetical value. At least for PvE. I think the only aspects of the game that are more focussed on gameplay itself would be PvP and farming, and, regardless of being off topic, I think if ANet keeps that impression up, they'll lose a lot of players. I don't think you can have an MMO purely based on PvP. Some do, I just don't. When GW was first released, there was such a balance between PvP and PvE. I don't see that anymore, so for people who play PvP, the money is worth the trouble to get.

Avarre · Aug 09, 2006, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I can't remember farming at all until after I had gotten my first set of 1.5k armor. I got my first set of 15k on the drops I got while slowly learning FoW in a PUG.

Certainly didn't find money as a heavily limiting factor, I only found myself running out when I was trying to buy something major (15k/fissure, new weapon sets, etc).

Alias_X · Aug 09, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Would you like anet to make a special version of the game for people who don't play often?

There are many ways of getting money.

-Guild
-Farming (learn of better spots and builds)
-Playing the game. When my character got to Seitung it had 2.3k I know because I just rolled a new character
-Pick up all the crappy drops and merchant them, it adds up
-Take your warrior over to do the Deep and sell some good drops

There are many more ways, but I don't feel like putting too much effort into this thread.

Quote:

All you rich GW folk shut your mouths and hold your flames.

Smoke · Aug 09, 2006, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Its very easy to earn gold in GW, just takes some effort, like reading.

lg5000 · Aug 09, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

I agree with you on the armor, though.. remember there are collectors and buying collector items off players in general works out cheaper than buying the armor from the armor crafter.

The weapons on the other hand? Get a collector weapon or spend the 5k in Keineng on the warrior axe/hammer/sword you'll need. The upgrades will come in time, and unless you're taking your pve character into pvp, it's not important to have a 20/20 sundering mod. And you can always opt for a green item.

It took me a long time to have enough money for my 15k wanderes armor. Most of that was done by playing the game and only the last 10k were farmed. Yes, it is hard to get 15k armor, it SHOULD be hard to get it, the 1.5k armor has the same level.

A few tips:

- Collectors are your friends
- Salvage everything for materials
- do the quests the luxton and kurzik give you, then convert faction to amber/jade instead of buying it from other players.
- sell amber/jade for additional money unless you need it for armor

I am far from rich, but I admit to knowing several farming builds and if farming wasn't so deadly boring, I could be rich

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I can't remember farming at all until after I had gotten my first set of 1.5k armor. I got my first set of 15k on the drops I got while slowly learning FoW in a PUG.

Certainly didn't find money as a heavily limiting factor, I only found myself running out when I was trying to buy something major (15k/fissure, new weapon sets, etc).

Exactly.
So people who have the ability to get to such places as FoW can start learning how to farm them. Thus money gain becomes easier, but, what I'm saying is for someone who just starts, if they come up with money for better defenses, how are they supposed to progress to the point where they CAN farm for large amounts of money?
I know people have gotten through, or very far in the game, on base armor. To me that's luck, and extensive knowledge of proper skills and the ways to use them. But for someone who needs to gain knowledge of those skills, but can't because they don't last long enough in a battle to consider new possibilities for builds etc., it's a little frustrating.
So I think that if better (not the best) armor was available for lesser costs (than what they already are -- or as someone suggested, dropping the materials altogether) in the beginning the game, newer people (or even people who have been around for a while, and still can't get the hang of things) could progress more easily.

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alias_X

-Guild
-Farming (learn of better spots and builds)
-Playing the game. When my character got to Seitung it had 2.3k I know because I just rolled a new character
-Pick up all the crappy drops and merchant them, it adds up
-Take your warrior over to do the Deep and sell some good drops

Not everybody has the privalege of being in a Guild.
Not everybody wants to farm as their only means of getting money.
When my character got to Seitung, I had about 2.3k as well, and I ended up spending it on skills that I needed. Fault on my part yes but that's not the point.
Crappy drops do add up, but that takes a lot of time. Some people don't want that.

I'm not speaking solely for myself.
I find it difficult to make money, yes, but if it's hard for someone who's been playing for almost a year, it must get extensively frustrating for newcomers.

If I'm correct, the Deep is an elite mission, which I do not have access to at the moment. Even if I did, my computer is too slow to handle PvP, so the idea of even trying would be useless. If I'm incorrect in the Deep being an elite mission, thus PvP, then forgive me.

As for the post about me 'reading'.
I spend a good few hours on here a day 'reading' rather than posting.
It's the 'reading' and trying that has resulted in nothing different that leaves me frustrated. Hence why I said in a previous post, if you 'read', that I have considered Ettin farming in the past. Most other, more ... beneficial types of farming, I don't have access to at the moment, and am steal 'reading' about so that when I do get access, I'll have some knowledge of what I'm doing.

Shadow of Light · Aug 09, 2006, 03:46 AM // 03:46

If the price of early armour offends you, get collector's armour. I did that even in Tyria because, as you yourself said, why waste money on something you WILL be getting rid of?

My Assassin and Ritualist both got through to Kaineng using collector's armour. The Assassin is now sitting there until I can decide what armour to buy her... unless I go for collector's there, as well. But by not buying armour through Shing Jea, she's got about 10k on her personal bank account (this was after doing ALL the island quests, too) and can easily afford any 1.5k sets (7.5k, cha-ching!) with plat to spare if I need materials.

I think this is one of the reasons it's so easy to earn money on 'newbie island': if you take the time to do the quests and don't spend too much too early, you'll be able to buy your 1.5k armour as soon as you reach Kaineng City. So long as you don't buy armour that uses super-expensive materials, like Monstrous Claws.

Don't want to waste time collecting? Many people merchant their drops, so it should be simple enough to offer to buy stuff at above-merchant rate. You'll still be paying less than you would at an armour dealer.

(And yes, I do think it's stupid that armour on newbie island often require expensive, exotic materials. Yet another reason to get collector's armour.)

I think the only people who're going to have trouble with buying armour in Cantha are those who have problems saving and spending wisely.

And those who rush ahead to Kaineng without doing quests and levelling up.

Quote:

People spending 100k+ on a weapon due to the fact that it has a nice skin? I think that's ridiculous.

I agree! That's why I sell such weapons instead of buying them.

But a skin isn't the same as an upgrade. Upgrades give you an edge, and in general don't cost nearly as much as a shiny weapon. A Superior Vigor Rune (which I have yet to cough up the 30k+ for) is cheap compared to a Crystalline Sword.

Matix411 · Aug 09, 2006, 03:50 AM // 03:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by lg5000

I am far from rich, but I admit to knowing several farming builds and if farming wasn't so deadly boring, I could be rich

Thank you.
And now if people would stop mentioning farming as an option, I would greatly appreciate it.